You Want a Marriage or a Wedding? The Why Behind the Ring!

Welcome to Season 2 of the WE3 The Winning Team Podcast.   WE want to extend a heartfelt thank you to all of you who listened, liked and downloaded any episode from Season One of your Podcast!  THANK YOU!  Your support means the world to us.  Please continue to like, comment, and share with your family and friends.  

WE kick off the season by acknowledging the societal shifts around marriage and exploring the motivations behind wanting to get married today. 

Is it societal pressure? A deep desire for partnership? Fear of being alone? WE dive into the "why" and challenge listeners to examine their own reasons.

With a focus on Christian values, WE discuss how this union fosters Christ-like qualities, encouraging vulnerability and growth. WE invite you to reflect on your own reasons for marriage and join us in this conversation, examining the cultural shift towards later marriages, cohabitation, and the rising influence of economically independent "alpha women."

Balancing love and individuality in marriage might seem like a daunting task, but it's the foundation of a thriving relationship.

The dynamics of modern marriage are in a state of flux, and WE delve into the balance between independence and interdependence. While exploring personal stories and societal narratives, such as the "strong Black woman" trope, WE highlight the importance of mutual support and shared responsibilities in creating a harmonious partnership. 

WE challenge the traditional 50-50 financial split, advocating for a 100-100 approach to foster unity. 

Join us as WE deliberate about the importance of self-reflection before marriage, the significance of intimacy and communication, and the role of mutual support in strengthening the bonds that make marriage a beautiful journey.

According to our research...people get married for the following reasons in 2025: 
1) Companionship & Intimacy: Finding a lifelong partner for emotional support, companionship, and intimacy.

• Pros: Reduces loneliness, provides emotional support, fosters intimacy and connection.
• Cons: Can lead to codependency, stifle personal growth, and create pressure to conform.

2) Starting a Family: Building a family and raising children together.

•  Pros: Provides a loving environment for children, strengthens family bonds, creates a sense of purpose.
•  Cons: Can put a strain on the relationship, limit individual freedom, and increase financial responsibilities.

3) Social Status & Tradition: Fulfilling societal expectations and adhering to traditional norms.

•   Pros: Can provide a sense of belonging and social acceptance.
•  Cons: Can lead to marrying for the wrong reasons (e.g., pressure from family), neglecting personal desires.

4) Financial Stability: Sharing financial responsibilities, pooling resources, and increasing financial security.

•   Pros: Can lead to improved financial stability, shared financial goals, and increased financial security.
•  Cons: Can lead to financial disagreements, power imbalances, and loss of financial independence.

5) Legal and Social Benefits: Gaining legal rights and benefits, such as inheritance rights, healthcare benefits, and tax advantages.

•  Pros: Provides legal and financial security, simplifies legal matters, and offers ce

Chapters

• 0:00 Purpose of Marriage
• 12:13 Reasons for Getting Married
• 26:26 Dependency and Individualism in Marriage
• 31:25 Changing Dynamics of Modern Marriage
• 35:13 Interdependence in Marriage
• 41:18 Mutual Support and Shared Responsibility
• 46:40 Balanced Interdependence in Marriage
• 52:01 Total Mutual Financial and Household Responsibility
• 56:05 Intimacy, Communication, and Companionship in Marriage
• 1:05:06 Self-Reflection Before Marriage

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

especially in a Christian marriage where you, as a individual, is striving to be just like God in all of your ways and all of your thoughts, your words, your deeds and your actions. And imagine me doing the exact same thing. I'm not focused on the role of a husband, you're not focused on the role of a wife, but we're focused on being just like Christ has has ordained for us to be. If we both do that, I just believe that that's the, that's the ultimate goal, because if I'm trying to be more like him, you're trying to be more like him, then when we come together in the marriage, then our marriage will look just like him.

Speaker 2: 1:07

Welcome to episode one of season two, season two we did it we did it a whole season one.

Speaker 1: 1:10

That is amazing. That is amazing. We praise god for that, because you know discipline and sacrifice meaning. You know, we know that this is god's purpose and we know that this is what we are supposed to do, but having the discipline to carry out a season, because we've been talking about this for a long time. So we thank each and every one of you who have downloaded our podcast, who have watched or subscribed on youtube, who have walked with us throughout this journey. When we're in town and out of town, people are coming up to us and it's amazing how we hear people say oh, we listen to your podcast and we're like, looking like, oh, really like. So you? And even, as I was looking at stats, you know we have five countries of people that are watching.

Speaker 2: 1:54

I know we're international.

Speaker 1: 1:57

In almost every state and you know there's still room and opportunity for growth. So what we want to make sure? Because we want to reach more people. We believe that this is what God has called us to do. So, whether you're watching on YouTube or whatever your favorite podcast, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast please, please, please, subscribe, please, like, please, engage with the content, please. We want to hear from you, we hear you talking about it when you see us in person, but we want to reach more people. So engage in the algorithm, because that's you know, that's how social media works. So, please, on the content right now, leave us a comment where you're listening from. We would truly, truly appreciate it. And again, subscribe, like and comment. We're going to give you many opportunities throughout this episode so that you can, can engage. So, thank you thank you.

Speaker 2: 2:47

Thank you for your support, thank you absolutely.

Speaker 1: 2:50

So you know we was talking about what would episode two, or really what would season two look like? And we've been having a lots of conversations since we've last met. You know we've done some marriage workshops and I know, omg, omg, that was fun.

Speaker 2: 3:08

It was fun.

Speaker 1: 3:09

It was actually fun, it was you know, over a hundred couples registered there and engaged, you know. So that was, that was good. And so, as we have been engaging with all of these couples and having all of these conversations, all of these couples and having all of these conversations, you know, we we had people in the room that were 20, 10, 10 years married, 20 years married, 30 years married, I think even 40 years married. And what was interesting, um, because you know, we decided to dedicate season two to those who are thinking about getting married.

Speaker 1: 3:42

But even though we have, uh, we're dedicating it to those thinking about getting married, as we said in the workshop, there were many things that we shared there that some of those couples said hey, we've been married for 30, 40 years and some of the things and the questions that you've asked, we've never thought about it. We've never, we've never talked about this stuff in 30 years. So we just, you know, we're excited and we thank God that. You know, he gives us revelation, he gives us. You know, we read a lot of books, you know. So some of this stuff is not even our content, I mean, not even our. You know, we didn't come up with it, but you know, we're just piecing it all together to make sure that we can be a blessing to whoever is listening.

Speaker 2: 4:25

So, and I think we, even as we went through that process, that we had to ask ourselves some questions too, like well, how do we feel about this and um, and even having some deeper conversations as well, even after being married 23 years, 23 this year this year, so um.

Speaker 2: 4:41

so we hope that this season is the same that sparks conversation for those that are watching whether you're you're married or not, and really just begin to look at this idea of marriage and what does that mean? It was like so you want to get married and so I know.

Speaker 1: 5:03

So why is that? But you know, when you you kind of, I want to talk about a little more inception, about that you know this was a topic that you kind of brought up and we started to discuss. So what was it that caused you to say you know what? This is a topic that we need to discuss for season two.

Speaker 2: 5:18

Yeah, I think some of it was from the workshop that we did, but I also, you know, in my research I just really started following different marriage groups on social media and some of the conversations that were coming out of that, out of those, out of the post, some were mind boggling to me.

Speaker 2: 5:48

But then it really began to have me think about, like, why do people get married and who's talking to people about marriage? Because there's a lot of conversation out there around singleness and I think there's even a lot of dialogue now we'll talk about that even a little bit later around what marriage, the concept of marriage in today's world, and probably even then what that looked like 20 years ago when we got married. And we got married and you know societal norms and, um, all of all of that. And so it really just began to spark my, my thought process on so you want to be married Cause I feel like on the flip side we'd hear a lot of people saying they want to be married, um, but then when you get to digging down deeper into their why, that's a hard question for them. So a lot of it just stemmed from social media, from conversations that I was having, and then even from that workshop of so you want to get married. Why?

Speaker 1: 7:01

Yeah, and I agree with you. I've been as I was digging and doing some of the research and a lot, of course, on social media, just listening to the perspectives of people, and you know, not that everybody has to have the same worldview as ours, but it was just interesting, also contradictory, where they would say one thing and they would say that they're desiring one thing, but they would be doing something the opposite of what they desire. Or I'll say something, they'll say that they want something, but then they're using a different bait and then wonder why they keep catching something that's other than what they desire. I also did a little research before today and I thought it was interesting that many people are planning to be married and in 2022, over 2 million marriages took place in the United States, but as of 2024, the divorce rate still remains at about 50%. The average length of marriage is eight years and those with a college degree are 30% less likely to get a divorce compared with to those who have a degree. And of course, you know, I don't think that anybody who has a degree is better, and I'm just quoting the statistics from I think it was the Bureau Department of Labor, but it just it stated that those with higher education. It often correlates with people who delayed getting married, so they were usually a little bit older and typically because of that they had some better communication skills and they were a little bit more financially stable.

Speaker 1: 8:32

But one other interesting statistic that I thought was interesting was that couples who cohabitate before getting engaged are 39% more likely to get a divorce. So there's this new phenomena I shouldn't say new, I mean it's been happening for a while of cohabitation, and so we'll talk a little bit about that later. But you know, a lot of people think that you know that it's not good to try it before you buy it. But what I think is is good to try before you buy it. But what I think is good to try before you buy it, but according to this statistic it may not be that, ain't it? So you know. So again, as we said, we just want to do our part in just giving people something to think about, and so hopefully we can help in decreasing that, that divorce rate.

Speaker 2: 9:20

And we, I want to ask something else too. Like, we know and understand that, like, marriage is not a one size fits all, because it really isn't. I think it's as we'll talk a little bit later around because there's two individuals coming into this union, and so what it looks like for one may look like something different for someone else, and so we're not here to say that every marriage has to look the same, but there is some. We believe that there are some key components to principles, all of that that you should think about and take into consideration as you're doing this, because it's more than just about that wedding day.

Speaker 2: 10:09

It is because, probably by the next day, you might be like what in the good world have I done? Because it's much deeper than Um, and so often we talk about that. I think, when we talk about marriage, we think about the wedding um, or the wedding day, or preparing for um, for marriage, uh, often revolves around the wedding Um, but when the really, when you begin to dig deeper into what um marriage is and some of those components, you know, jumping into, it may look a whole lot different. And so that's our hope, you know, that's our plan to really begin to unpack some of those things this season and what that can look like and again give you something to think about as you are preparing.

Speaker 1: 11:07

That's good, because a question that I often ask when I'm doing couples coaching premarital coaching is that, to start the conversation, I don't ask any questions about the wedding, because a lot of people are planning. According to this statistic, too many people are planning a wedding, but how many are really preparing to be married? And, as you said, there's a big, big difference. And I think, as we talk today, I think that that's really the goal of this entire season. But, again, if you are already married, please don't zone out. Please don't, because please stay connected. Connected because we're going to give you something to think about. There's going to be some opportunities for you to ask questions. There's going to be an opportunity for you to even gain support and insight for other couples. So please remember to like, comment, share whatever that you know we provide, because, even though it may not help you, you may know a couple or individuals who could benefit for this as they're preparing to be a husband or a wife. Absolutely so.

Speaker 1: 12:13

Um, according to our research, as we was doing today, people get married because we ask so that. So you want to get married. Why, why? Why so? So the re, according to the research that we found out for in 2025, here are some of the reasons why people decide to get married. Number one companionship and intimacy. Because they're really looking to find a lifelong partner for emotional support, companionship and intimacy. Partner for emotional support, companionship and intimacy. And for all of these that we're naming, there's pros and cons to all of them. We're just going to kind of go through the list and then we'll talk a little bit more about them afterward.

Speaker 2: 12:55

Starting a family, so building a family, raising children together.

Speaker 1: 13:00

Another one is social status and traditions. You know, people really fulfilling societal expectations of just adhering to this is what society expects me to do at a particular age.

Speaker 2: 13:12

Yeah, financial stability.

Speaker 1: 13:14

So you're sharing those financial responsibilities, making that money together, getting the bags together, I mean and some people do it for legal or legal, or you know the social benefits, because they gain legal rights, they gain benefits, they gain citizenship, they gain inheritance, health care and tax benefits. Sometimes people are just getting married for all of those reasons and not necessarily for for love and companionship.

Speaker 2: 13:43

You know no judgment no judgment here, no, um. The other is a sense of security and stability.

Speaker 1: 13:47

So finding a stable and secure partner for long-term companionship and emotional support, so yeah, sometimes another reason is that they've been together for a long time and so they're just getting married because they're trying to deepening. You say what?

Speaker 2: 14:03

I said that's it.

Speaker 1: 14:04

Yeah, I guess we were together seven years we can talk about that, but to deepen, to deepen their love and their commitment, just really to formalize their relationship, um, because they've been together for a long, long time yeah, uh, the other is just building a shared life together, so just someone to do life with.

Speaker 2: 14:22

So be creating a home, building a life together, experiencing joys and sorrows, and just doing life together.

Speaker 1: 14:31

Yeah, cause I know several couples who are you know later in years and they have two different homes and two different you know places of existence and they just decided, you know, we're going to do this thing so we can do life together as opposed to being alone.

Speaker 1: 14:47

Another reason people get married is really to create some legacy, you know. So, building a family so they can pass along their values and, you know, traditions and future generations. Because to me, you know, it's very clear to me that life is not a marathon, it's not a sprint, it is absolutely a relay race, and so I think we all should be thinking about legacy, the legacy that we're creating Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 15:12

And then the last one is just personal growth. So being in a marriage or being together just means, like you're learning, growing, evolving as individuals and really just giving context to a committed relationship. So how do you, if you support me, I support you. Hopefully we both are learning and growing together.

Speaker 1: 15:31

That's one I have a lot to talk to say about, and I know we're not going to talk about it right now, but it's just the revelation that I got and we shared it a lot at the marriage workshop. But when you think, especially in the context of a Christian marriage, what really hit me as we were doing that workshop is that I think a lot of times we are preparing to be a husband and a wife and I think you know the context of a marriage is one of the only places where you can be, and should be, completely vulnerable. And if you're being completely vulnerable, then you're doing it with a person who will see you as who you actually are. Therefore, it creates one of the only environments where you absolutely can.

Speaker 1: 16:31

Individual is striving to be just like God in all of your ways and all of your thoughts, your words, your deeds and your actions. And imagine me doing the exact same thing. I'm not focused on the role of a husband, you're not focused on the role of a wife, but we're focused on being just like Christ has ordained for us to be. If we both do that, I just believe that that's the ultimate goal, Because if I'm trying to be more like him, you're trying to be more like him. Then when we come together in the marriage, then our marriage will look just like him, and so I think that that's something that was.

Speaker 1: 17:26

You know, that ain't the reason why we're going to talk about why it ain't the reason why I got married, but it was a revelation to me is that so many people are trying to um uphold the image of a husband or a wife that they learned, but is that the right model for us to follow? So you know, we'll talk about that. So I'm wondering why did you get married? We just went over all of these uh reasons why you know we talked about, you know, companionship, starting a family, you know status and tradition, financial stability. You know all the other reasons that I stated and I'll put them here on the bottom of the screen. But why did you get married? And you can put it in the comment, because we want to hear from you. Why did you get married? Because what's interesting is that when we start talking about this question with the people at the workshop, and even when we start talking about it personally, Even for preparing here.

Speaker 1: 18:22

It was like wait a minute why did I get that? So you wanna go first? Why'd you give that?

Speaker 2: 18:27

Yeah, I think I hadn't really thought about that question deeply until, honestly, until we decided to have this conversation, and again, probably during the workshop as well. You know, I think one of the probably a few of these that we've named already. We have been, as we've talked before. If you've watched us, you know we were together seven years before we decided to get married, and so it was one of these things of like I felt like we are met, we were at this crossroads in our relationship and it's like, well, why aren't we married If we've been together this long? Why don't we want to get married? And it was me, y'all, like I say, I'm the first to admit that and I can even dig deeper into that from there.

Speaker 2: 19:21

So I think one, if I'm looking at this list, one is, you know, because we have been together for a long time, I think because I did love you, and I had to ask myself those questions like, if I'm loving you, if you're a safe person for me, I trust you Then why don't I want to do life with you right now? Because for me, marriage is doing life with you, and so why didn't I? What was stopping me from saying I want to do life with you and I ain't really had no real good answer. Y'all Like, I think, outside of you know, no one else around me was getting married Like my crew. We were all in serious relationships but we weren't dating. I mean, we weren't getting married and so it was. You know, outside environment, maybe I don't know what you said to me, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 20:21

I feel like we had this conversation in a car ride or something before I think it was that thing on macaroni grill day that was, that was rough I remember, because it was kind of a gut punch, but I think I did enough introspection to be like, okay, I can understand that. And you pretty much said is that like I was one of the only real, one of the only real relationships that you had, one and are you making a decision on me? And you had not had any additional things to compare the relationship to? And so I was like so, of course, as I said, it was a little gut punch, but I appreciated the honesty, like it was a very honest conversation, and so my thought was all right, well, go, go see, see what's out there. And he broke up with me.

Speaker 1: 21:24

It sounded like she broke up with me. Somebody tell you, I'm not sure you the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, and we've been together for five years. At this point it was like, all right, cool. And I said, all right, go. And I said, um, but I just want to tell you, you know, I'm choosing to be here and so there's no guarantee that I'll be here when you get back. And that was the conversation we had. But he here, y'all, I'm here because she came back like baby please, baby please.

Speaker 2: 21:53

But I felt like we needed to be honest with that. Like I knew, I just wasn't ready to be married. And so I feel like, because I did not want to be that statistic and so it was. You know, let's be honest, let's have some conversation. I love you, I care about you, but let me be honest and say I don't know if I want to be married right now, and that probably has a whole lot of things around.

Speaker 1: 22:23

And we haven't even started talking about marriage or nothing.

Speaker 2: 22:26

Yeah, but I needed to just be clear, because we had just graduated, because people around us was getting married Like people that were in our circles or friends were starting to get married because we had just graduated from college and I was like we don't even know one another as adults that was another thing you said outside of the context of school side of school like we.

Speaker 2: 22:48

What? Who are we now as adults, young adults, and now starting and building who we are? You know. So again, to now get into, uh, marriage was like I don't. I barely know how to be a 22 year old out of college now. What do I know about being a 22 year old wife?

Speaker 1: 23:12

yeah, I had no plans on me call asking you at that time, but I get it well, yeah, like, yeah, like, let's let's keep it real, like right now.

Speaker 2: 23:20

So yeah, so, so again, I think so, where we landed with for me was, you know, now I can say, building a shared life together, love and commitment, building a legacy, like now looking at at what that is now, why, my why is is to build that legacy and build life together. We do life together.

Speaker 1: 23:43

So yeah, and for me, I think it was it was, I'll say, the societal pressure of all right, what's next? What's next? That was constantly the question that we were getting asked, and even that, if you remember my commencement speak at speech at Michigan State, like like, what's next was my speech? Is that, everywhere you go, when you, you know, leave middle school, it's what's next. You graduate from high school, it's what's next when you're in college, everybody is asking the question of what's next. So I was starting to process it, but again, I didn't.

Speaker 1: 24:18

No one in my family was really married, except for my one aunt. So it wasn't that I was, you know, necessarily thinking about marriage. I was really thinking about, um, so, man, am I going to have any kids, or you know, but it wasn't. I didn't at the time put you know in the order of you know, but I wasn't trying to have no kids then either of you know, but I wasn't trying to have no kids then either. And so, yeah, so it was just interesting about. It was for me really more so the societal pressure of what's next and what I'm thinking about, because I felt secure in having companionship and intimacy, but it wasn't necessarily I wasn't thinking of even though I was only making penn. But it wasn't necessarily I wasn't thinking of even though I was only making pennies.

Speaker 2: 25:05

it wasn't even about financial stability, because we both was making pennies, and so you know we was together, we was brought together, baby Building Building together, I think like to add to that too around the societal norms. I think faith played a role in that too as as well. Like, okay, well, now you all have been dating, now you're christians, now that's what you're supposed to do, you're supposed to get married next, um and I. I think that that had some I don't want to say pressure to it, but it did. It was an added um component.

Speaker 1: 25:39

Yeah, and our families have started to ask the question. It's the other one, sorry. Yeah, our families have started to ask the questions of you know when, when, when, even like that one christmas where everybody thought I was gonna propose to you and everybody was waiting around all day and every time I would get on the floor to wrap a gift, everybody's, you know, gasp with anticipation and then finally, I don't know who asked me, but finally somebody was like I gotta go, are you proposing to tie in today? I'm like, uh, no, like I don't know why y'all thought that and it was like he ain't gonna do it today. Y'all I'm like, first of all, but, but anyway. So I think that, as we're talking about these expectations, I think I want to drill down a little bit in one of them and we may be able to get to more.

Speaker 1: 26:26

But when you start to think about companionship and intimacy and that's really talking about the why you want to get married People want to get married for companionship and intimacy. That's like one of the top reasons why, and that's for finding a lifelong partner, for emotional support, companionship and intimacy. But, as we said, there's many pros and cons to these and a pro to that, to the companionship and intimacy is reducing loneliness and providing emotional support and fostering intimacy and connections. But one of the cons that could be seen for that is it could lead to codependence, it could stifle personal growth and it can create pressures to conform as opposed to continuing to be who you are. And so, as I was thinking about that con, though, I said wait a minute. I said can lead to codependency. And so I said when did dependency become a bad word? And so, like, who said it was a bad word?

Speaker 1: 27:25

And so when you think about dependency in our society, you know you have, you know, individualism and Western society, where it really emphasizes self-reliance. And so when I started thinking about that, I'm like but wait, when you think about not only do you have a divorce rate at 50 percent, but even the marriage rate is declining. So when the marriage rate is declining and people feel like I don't really need that, you know what role does that play? Because you now, with social media, you have social isolation. That's happening, you know.

Speaker 1: 27:55

I think there's also everything that we're seeing online there's an increased competition between men and women, especially even black men and women, and so I believe that people are trying to create this sense of inequality and competition between us, which could be creating a divide, which is causing us to not want to cohabitate or not even cohabitate but be together in a relationship. That's fostering the intimacy and then just the erosion of the overall social support that's happening. And so you know what's your thought on how individualism is impacting, or dependence in marriage, or the word dependence Like. What do you think about that?

Speaker 2: 28:36

Yeah. So I think you know if I'm thinking back to even when we first got married, and I think specifically to the, I think even to why I didn't want to initially get married, because it was this idea of strong Black woman. I don't need to depend on a man for anything. I don't need to, I need to have my own. And so I think the narrative of it's okay to be dependent on someone wasn't there, like and so, and I think that that's um, I think that's still some of the narrative, even you know, as, as you. So I do think it is a, it's a concern.

Speaker 2: 29:48

I think it does impact even how you show up in I won't even go to a marriage how you show up in a relationship, because I think it's a. How you show up in a relationship, because I think it's a um, and again, we haven't been in the dating game for a while, um, but just listening to those that are dating and um, friends that are dating, right, exactly, um, I think there's so many um, what's the word? So many um? It is this the stigma so many of these building, I mean roadblocks, I think even, and it all revolves around this dependency, um, and this idea of dependence, of dependency, uh, and, and so that that begins to hinder, I think, because you go in with this set of what I'm not going to do, or what I will do, or you got to match my energy, or you got to come with this, that and a third, and that often now begins to, I think, it builds the space in between, in this gap, that hard to get through the barriers that are there.

Speaker 1: 31:04

Then I'm just going to keep doing me and I'm going to be okay with that, because I'm just going to do me yeah, because we want it to be easy, and so I think what's happening is that people are still trying to figure out who they are as individuals, and so I believe that that's what's causing there to be a greater delay in getting married People.

Speaker 1: 31:25

You know, the 30s are the new 20s, and so, whereas we were thinking about getting married in the 20s, people are now waiting to 30s and even 40s to even consider marriage, and that's OK, and I think that it's kind of like wait a minute, why am I conforming to society's norms?

Speaker 1: 31:44

And they're reevaluating the roles of a husband and a wife and even the purpose of a marriage, and so people, as I'll say back in the day, where it was a sense of fulfillment in order to be married, from the, from the conversations that we're having, that's not one of the reasons why they're getting married now. So I think that you know, because I'm an individual and because I am independent, then I'm not trying to get married right now, and so I think that this most definitely increasing it, and so I think too, as we were talking about, you know, they may not get married, but we've actually seen, you know, as we've talked to people that there's a shift and and I'll say, alternative lifestyles, where before it was like no, you can't be shacking up, but now people are like wait, you know how much rent costs.

Speaker 2: 32:35

You know how much a mortgage costs.

Speaker 1: 32:37

It's like, bro, we about to be roommates and so there's a rise in cohabitation and it's becoming even more.

Speaker 1: 32:44

That's starting to happen and because of that, you know, people are starting to cohabitate now and will cohabitate even before marriage, but, as I told you earlier in the statistic, that it's a 39% increase in the fact that you may get divorced. So if you're considering marrying a person, I mean there's that you really need to listen to this podcast, because you need to understand that that actually could work against you. And so, and I think the last thing that I'll say is that, from an independent standpoint, is that when you look at the changing gender roles, there's this new phenomena and movement where I'm hearing a lot of women. It used to be, you know, I'm a boss, I'm a boss, but now it's a lot of women that are calling themselves alpha women, and that term used to be, you know, more so around an alpha male. And so now that you have, you know, an alpha woman and it's increasing, women have increased economic and social independence and it's having a significant impact on marriages, because now you have men who are intimidated by women who are, I guess, more independent from an economic standpoint.

Speaker 1: 34:13

But I would argue that just because you're able to support yourself financially does not mean that you are a good person and or a good wife. Just because you're able to support yourself financially does not mean that you know you are a good person and or a good wife. Just because you can support yourself independently as a man doesn't mean that you're a good husband or that you will be a good provider. So I think that we put a lot of weight on the term independence because we value that, because, honestly, I think a lot of people just don't want to have to answer to anybody, and they don't want because answering to someone and having a covering, that's a sense of accountability, that's a. That's a sense of accountability, I think, is the main word, and men and women are are bucking accountability right now.

Speaker 2: 34:56

Yeah, I completely agree with that. Accountability right now. Yeah, I completely agree with that, and I think it's so. It's really, I think now, like, how do you find that? How do you find that balance? Because I think we have back to even my point of earlier of being this strong Black woman and that narrative. That narrative also lend itself to us to being able to really show up in spaces where we can now say that we're a boss. So we now, you know, we're driven, we're highly driven, because we feel like we have to prove something to someone.

Speaker 2: 35:37

And so it's been all of these, often, narratives that Black women have to even fight through, either fight through in a workplace or in a home, or even sometimes in our churches, in how we show up as women. And so I think it's now this okay, well, yeah, we have that Like we're coming to the table with that, but now how do we make it to where? I'm coming to the table with it? But also my coming to the table mean that you're going to eat too, you know, and that we now we're going to eat together, and so it's not about you know how much if I'm bringing more food to the table at this moment, but I know that you have the capacity to keep bringing food to the table and keep providing to the table. Then now we are, we both eat and we both eat well, and so how do you have that balance? Yeah, how do you get that, that balance?

Speaker 1: 36:35

And that's really where I want to go next, because we talk about dependence, but and that's when I the initial question I ask is when did dependence become a bad word? Is because it's really about interdependence. And you know, when you think about this from a Christian worldview, the Bible is very clear. It says it's not good for any of us to be alone. It's not. It wasn't good for man to be alone, so he provided a helper that was suitable for him, and that's interdependence. And so you know, of course, our scripture is always Amos, three and three. How can two walk together except they agree? And so we always want to make sure that we all want a core, because there's power in that agreement. And I think you know from Ecclesiastes, of course, when we say we three, you know a three, a three strand cord is not easily broken, because it's not only myself, it's not only you, but it's also God that is binding us together. And so when we're thinking about that, you know God created. This is what I believe.

Speaker 1: 37:32

I believe that this independence and this wave of independence, that of, of course, rocked society, but now even it's becoming a I'm going to even say a stronghold, because the enemy is so tricky because he understands that marriage was created as an institution to reflect him on the earth.

Speaker 1: 38:01

But if he can get all of us to look at ourselves as being independent, we won't even have the desire to create holy unions and matrimonies, so that there won't be even more reflections of who God is in the earth. Because when a man and a woman are together, we bring glory to our father, and so the enemy is not happy with that, and so what he'll do is Satan will come and try to figure out any means in order to come between the man and the woman. But here's the sneaky part If I can prevent y'all from even getting together, then I don't have to fight as hard, because y'all gonna fight against yourself. Y'all gonna already put distance and divide and competition and competitiveness and thrive and thriving to be independent that you will never even seek independence, because you'll say no, it's me, myself and I. That's what I got in the end. That's what it says that's what it says.

Speaker 1: 39:02

So the thing is is that the enemy knows that if he's able to separate us, it will have far reaching consequences of distorting the vision of God's existence. It'll even destroy God's influence in future generations. Because if you look at the United States and where we are now, and even the world, we're becoming a society that's in a post-Christian world where Christianity and the Bible and the biblical worldview is not even accepted, and so that's something that we can even think about. So when you think about you know, and I think a lot of times when I'm having conversations, it's not only am I individual, but it's like I don't want to be dependent on nobody, and that's what I usually hear people saying about they don't want to be dependent but the codependent environment, because that's not healthy.

Speaker 1: 40:01

You know, a marriage is not and should not be codependent, because usually that that is a manifestation of an unhealthy reliance on an individual. You usually have blurred lines of boundaries. You usually have one or two partners, people pleasing because they're trying to make sure that they have false harmony within the marriage. There's usually a lack of self-sufficiency on one part or the other, and so I'm not talking about codependence, because dependence, being able and having to depend on somebody. That's interdependent. I'm depending on you, you're depending on me, that's okay, but a lot of times we have adopted this mindset of I won't depend on anybody, so so what are your thoughts on interdependence versus codependence, and how do you feel like that even is reflected in our marriage.

Speaker 2: 40:52

Yeah, I think in, like, if I'm real talking this, as I'm looking at this, the definitions of codependency, as I'm looking at this, the definitions of codependency I think in the beginning I was probably starting to lean in this codependent way for because and I think, in the name of submission, so it's like OK, whatever, what do you?

Speaker 2: 41:18

want Whatever you like, whatever you like, and you know like you get to make the decisions. You're the man in the house. I'm not trying to, you know, make ruffle tail feathers Like I'm trying to stay in this to win, and so I think it was leaning towards that, but, to be honest, it wasn't who I was, and so I think what was beginning to happen is some resentment because of something that you didn't even ask me to do. You didn't ask me to be this, you know, almost subservient person.

Speaker 2: 41:57

You married Latonya and you were not subservient when I met you I was not, I was not um, and so you know, in this, in this you know kind of warped way of, of submission, um, I, I had to change that, you know, to this idea of um, interdependence and and I think I feel like I'm seeing even more of that, I think we have a name for it now and as we are, as we've gone through the years, we're, I think we have done well with this again, this rhythm, you know this, this dance in in our marriage and now I'm feeling like, even now, in this season of our marriage, that interdependency is stronger or growing more, I think, because it's, you know, our years of like, hardcore parenting is done and we can kind of see clearly now and now, looking at what do each other need and then what do we bring to the table. You know, again back to to that table analogy, in this season it's, it's OK to to to say, oh no, I agree with this or I disagree.

Speaker 2: 43:26

You know, because I think in this world of you know they're in my trying to create, our trying to create a false sense of harmony, our trying to create a false sense of harmony, there was that season in our lives where we created that false sense of harmony that now it's okay to be like. Well, no, I have an opinion on this, I have a thought on this. What do you feel? What do you think? And then we kind of again do the rhythm and the dance of now, how do we make this work for us?

Speaker 1: 43:53

That's good.

Speaker 1: 43:54

And so where does that come from, is my thought, and so I think that you know this is how husband wife relationships are portrayed in movies, even on, in some instances, social media.

Speaker 1: 44:07

And so marriage has become less desirable for that strong black woman, or the woman that's strong and independent is less desirable because she's saying I'm not going to become subservient where cause that's what they're they're using subservient as synonymous with submission, and that's just not true.

Speaker 1: 44:25

And so because marriage for men even is viewed as this life sentence where I have to be doomed to misery with the ball and chain, and so because it's a death sentence to my individuality, then I'm not going to participate in it. Because if I got to get married as a man is what we're thinking If I got to get married to someone, then that's when I have to submit or even die to self so that I can become the provider of the family. And that's not a hundred percent true, because interdependence, it's really about me being a hundred percent who I am, you being a hundred percent who you are, and two becoming one in one interdependent relationship. Two becoming one doesn't mean that we both become one person. It means that we both become one unit as a marriage to function as a team, and so codependency.

Speaker 2: 45:24

Wait. How do you feel about what has interdependence look like for you and our marriage?

Speaker 1: 45:28

You know, I mean interdependence has, and we and we're going to talk about that in detail, because I think that when you think about dependence versus interdependence, it's really about mutual support and, I would say, shared responsibility.

Speaker 1: 45:45

And so I believe that you know we have done you have always done a great job of making sure that my needs and wants are met, and I believe that, like you always have been intentional about you know, um, understanding, just trying trying to know, like even to the point sometimes where you, you provide things that I wasn't even thinking or didn't know that I wanted or didn't know that I needed, and so you know, for that I appreciate the effort and I appreciate the intentionality that you put into that, because I think that you know that's what prevented me from becoming because I've always been a super duper, independent person Like that's how my mom raised me to be a problem solver. I don't need anybody. You know we can coexist together, but I don't really need you. But you, it's cool for you to be around, but I think that that's not a healthy way of looking at it and looking at life, and so when you have interdependence, it should be, it should be a balanced relationship where two people are relying on one another for that support, the companionship and the growth. But I think, while you're maintaining your individuality and your autonomy, and I believe that that's one thing that we have done very well, and I think that that's why we have worked, is that I didn't try to change you in any way, that I didn't try to change you in any way, you didn't try to change me in any way, but what we said is all right. As you said, the rhythm is like all right, this is how she's moving in the world and, of course, there's not that people are now saying match energy. But I think that we have always done a good job of of matching energy, and I'm saying I say always, but there have, of course, been seasons where the energy didn't match or we weren't flowing well, but I think that it was important for us to do it.

Speaker 1: 47:45

But I'm glad you said that, because I think that there's one area that I think I even want everybody's opinion on here, because, from an individual standpoint, individuality is important, because both partners, both of us, should have our own interests, our own hobbies and our own friendships, and so one of the areas that I think about is that I am a person who loves long hair. You are a person who always want to cut your hair hair For me. I believe that, because you know I am the one who needs to love and appreciate and support my wife, that you know you should want to do what I say. Do and submit to me in this area and leave your hair long so that I can, you know, rub my fingers through your hair and love it. But you always want to cut it. So y'all got to help us settle this debate.

Speaker 2: 48:41

It's not a debate, it's nothing to debate, and so I'm going to give him, because this is an ongoing conversation. So let me just say this y'all, I've been cutting my hair for 30 years however long we've been together for 30 years and it usually happens in the summertime every year, every year. But now that I am entering into another close to another decade, hair is overrated. It's just overrated, and so what I tell him is that you know, I can grow it if I needed to grow it, but this is my theme. This is the one thing that I say. This needs to be Latonya. Let this be my individuality. I'll hold on to that bit of individuality.

Speaker 1: 49:24

And that's the only reason why I don't get mad, because this could be a thing and this is a thing for many people in marriage where I have to now decide that this is, as we go to, one of the other things. You've got to set clear boundaries when you're talking about interdependence, and so healthy boundaries are respected, and so for me, I realize this is important to her. I don't quite understand why this is so important to her, but I am going to allow her I shouldn't say allow, but I'm not going to push back hard on this, this assertion of individuality in the marriage, and I'm just going to say that it's not anything against me, it's something that she's doing for her, and so for that there's a such thing as cuter longer hair.

Speaker 2: 50:15

And so you know so interdependent interdependence.

Speaker 1: 50:19

Another one when you think about boundaries, it's like you know, healthy respect for boundaries. How does that show up for us, like I think, another way that shows up and and this comes up a lot but it's like people be hiding their cell phones and locking their phones. It's like, look here, go my phone, you could take it all day, you could have the password, like we all have passwords for everything you know. So, um, that's just what it looks like. I think, neutral support and growth. I mean that's one. How does that, when you think about interdependence, that's what it really means how, what is mutual support and growth look like for you, for me, to you and in our marriage?

Speaker 2: 50:56

yeah, I mean I think you you do an amazing job of just supporting me and whatever new endeavor that I decide I want at the moment, or whatever I need a new job, whatever that goes on in Latonya's little brain and so like, you are like one of my biggest cheerleaders and so like, for that I thank you, and often the brains behind, especially some of the business aspects of my world, and so you do that well, like you celebrate me and because it's not a competition with us, like when you, when you do good, I'm, I do good, when I do good, you do good, you know, so it's it's because it's. It's this thing of like, yeah, we, we both are well when, when one or the other is well. So yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:56

I think that's what that looks like for me.

Speaker 1: 52:00

Good. I think again, interdependence is what we're talking about, because it's important when you think about a relationship and interdependence. Another area of that is shared responsibilities, and when you think about shared responsibilities, of course that could be responsibilities around the household and everything else, but it's also just shared responsibilities around wellbeing making sure that you are well, making sure that I am well and that our relationship is well, that our children and our household is well, and I think that you know that that goes into when you say shared responsibilities. It's just not what you do, but it's not just what we do, but it's also the decisions that we make, and so I think that we do a good job of including one another in any big decision, and so it's it's whatever is going to happen, I'm going to talk to you about it, really, big or small, I'm going to talk to you about it before I, before I make a decision, before I act on anything. It's like, hey, let's, let's have this conversation before I act on anything. It's like, hey, let's have this conversation. And I think that you know that's what fosters this sense of you know, we are the same, you know, even though you know, according to you know, biblically speaking, it's like the man is the head of the household. It's like, yeah, that's fine, but you know, the wife can be the neck of the household, and so it's just that there's a way we all have responsibilities and shared responsibilities. And so I think that, you know, this is such a big phenomena on the Internet that I don't understand. But even from a financial responsibility perspective and we've shared with all of you many times on how, you know, we do our finances but you know this whole 50-50 phenomena, you know, and there was a, you know there was even another trend that went around on social media where the wife would walk into the room and I was going to do this and I decided not to. But the wife walks into the room and she says to the husband hey, babe, I'm sorry but I can't, I can't help out with the mortgage this month. And then he'll look at her puzzle and he'd be like you know, you never help out with the mortgage this month. And then he'll look at her puzzle and he'd be like you know, you never help out with the mortgage. I mean, I always pay it. And so then she laughs and she walks away and then that's it.

Speaker 1: 54:06

And you know, and there's many other conversations where young women are saying you know we're going out on a date. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not giving 50 percent. You know you pay the whole thing, we not. If you go on 50, 50, then it's not happening. It was another, you know, you know the balloon pop dating thing. It's one of the gentlemen, he, he made mention of something, like you know he was. He was just explaining it. He wasn't even saying that he believed in 50, 50. But when he said it, everybody just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop their balloon and he, like y'all, didn't even let me finish and so just want to give some clarity from our perspective.

Speaker 1: 54:44

I think 50-50 is insane because it's a hundred, hundred. So when you think about and how can two walk together except they agree, two becomes one. If we're thinking about 50-50, if you give 50% of your check I give 50% of my check and we put that into one pot, I still have something left, you still got something. That's three. Two are not becoming one. So for me there's only one pot.

Speaker 1: 55:14

So you can't go 50-50 if 100% of what you have goes in. 100% of what I have goes in. 100% of what's in there is yours. 100% of what's in there is mine. There's no 50-50. And so when everything that comes into the house is ours, then whatever we have, if I got $100, then whatever we have, if I got a hundred dollars, you got a hundred dollars. If I got a million dollars, you have a million dollars, and so that's just how it is. And so you just all of it goes into the single pot. And so I think that the same way with household chores if it needs to be done, just do it. If it needs to be done Now, we may have a conversation around who's going to take care of the responsibilities, or who's going to do this or do that, because I know you're not going to cut the grass or nothing like that so we may have a conversation to set expectations. I'm not going to cook, but I will make sure that you eat.

Speaker 2: 56:08

Right, and I will make sure that the grass got cut, even if it was not me. Absolutely it won't be me, but that's where we are. Yeah, absolutely it won't be me, but but that's where we are. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I think that's been the value of our marriage, that it has. Because, first of all, like they just take too much energy, I don't have it. I don't have the energy for 50, 50. I don't, because the moment that 55 become 50, you, my 50, your 50, my 50 now has to be 55, because I didn't have my, my other, um. Now that's a problem. Like I'm not even ready to keep having conversations around and a lot of that comes with, you know, with the money, where you see a whole lot of that conversation around that 50, 50.

Speaker 1: 56:54

But I'm not, I'm not getting ready to do that, but you just made a good point is that what happens if a person it is 50, 50, and then hard times happen and a person loses their job, and then now you have to put in 70 or 80 or 90 or even 100 percent, and that's where we've seen that a lot of conflict has happened, and now all of a sudden it's like, well, you're not doing your part, resentment sets in arguments, and then you know, one of the top reasons for divorce is for issues around finances. And so for me is that, lord forbid you were to lose your job. But if you lost your job, then this is what it's going to be, we're going to figure it out. And so and I believe that you would feel the exact same way that if Lord forbid something were to happen it's like, look, I got to do what I got to do, we got to do what we got to do to figure it out. So I just think that you know that's really what interdependence is about is that we both are going to do and to share, have a sense of shared responsibility for all of our well-being.

Speaker 1: 57:59

And so a last couple is enhanced intimacy, and another one is improved communication, and so intimacy is a big one and I think that you know, a lot of times people think about intimacy only from the standpoint of sexual intimacy, but there's so many other aspects to intimacy, from emotional connection, mental connection, you know, even you know, shared time that we spend with one another. There's another book that, and even a workshop that we went to on the six stages or six pillars of intimacy. It's a great, great, great book. We'll make sure we do maybe a future episode on the six pillars of intimacy, but it's really around and I think this plays very well into the next one, which is improved communication, because the communication that we have, the way we share our dreams and our fears, I mean all of those things strengthen our bond and interdependency.

Speaker 1: 59:01

It's necessary for us to have open and honest conversation, and not only honest but vulnerable conversations, and there's a difference between honesty and vulnerability and I think that that's what we've, what we've figured out over the, I'll say, during the workshop is this was one of the top, I'll say, themes when you know, standing around talking to couples after the workshop, even the phone calls and information or phone calls that we I've had with, you know, some of the brothers, or you know that we've had with some couples after is that I think that this was the biggest breakdown is that people saw intimacy and vulnerability as the same thing, where honesty is really about being truthful about something, where vulnerability is about the emotional openness and even risk taking when having a conversation, because you can have a conversation about the facts of something, but if I don't know how you feel about those facts that you're talking about, then it can create a distance between the two, where where he or she does not feel close to you because there's no intimacy or vulnerability in the conversation Because honesty, because sometimes it would be a miscommunication where he or she would say they are not being honest with me and they're like I am being honest, I told you everything.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

But really what they were saying is you're not being vulnerable with me because you're not. You're not putting any feelings behind what you're saying, but I think that I think the question that I also what we figured out and found out during that is have you created a safe space for a person to be vulnerable?

Speaker 2: 1:00:53

Yeah, that's what I was just about to say. In order to have vulnerability and intimacy, you have to be safe, like, are you a safe person for me to be able to share these very intimate and vulnerable moments? Because if not, and you're like, what's wrong with you? Why are you crying so much, or why are you this or why are you that, then no, I'm not going to share, no, that's going to break down Now, that's going to create distance between you. And so I think you have always been a safe place for me and a safe space.

Speaker 2: 1:01:32

Even when there was, you know, some things that I may not have wanted to share, it wasn't because you weren't safe for me. It was whatever narrative again, that I had kind of created in my mind. So I think, in order to have that, you have to be a safe person and hear from your partner if they're sharing that you're not. Hear from your partner if they're sharing that you're not. I think that's really huge and not being on the defense about that it's this is that person's experience with you and being able to take a step back and now say, all right, I heard you say this and that's not my intention. My intention were this, and I think we've even had some of some of that that you know. We've had some of that back and forth too as well. Like that was never my intention. My intention was to say a, b, c and d what you said was.

Speaker 1: 1:02:28

That is what I said and that is what I did um, but, um, but, yeah, but I, I, that's, that's where I am, and I think that, again, this whole segment that we were just talking about was all based around communication I mean, sorry, companionship and intimacy, and so we're thinking about why people get married. They get married because they want and they desire companionship, they want and they desire intimacy, but for all of these reasons, they may feel like they received it or they may feel like it's been rejected. So think about a person who has the desire Now talking to you all, think about a person who has a desire to get married because they want companionship and they want intimacy, but they get into it and they experience the opposite of the things that we just talked about, because that's not who you are, and so that's why it's so vitally important for you all to have the conversations prior to marriage. That's why it's so important, because if your goal and your desire is to get married for companionship and intimacy, but you're marrying a person that's devoid or don't have the ability to love you or to meet the needs, the wants and desires as you have them, then you will be marrying a person and may become the statistic that we're talking about, because they may not not only may not want to do it, they may not have the ability or the know-how to express the love that you need or the intimacy and the companionship that you need in a way that you would feel loved.

Speaker 1: 1:04:07

I'm so excited about episode three because we're going to talk about this book called attached, and it it's. It's incredible, and I think that it's gonna help us to understand more around the types of attachments that we have, whether it's secure, whether it's anxious or whether it's an avoidant attachment style, and so that's the reason why, if you, if you know your desire and companionship and intimacy, then we got to make sure that we're finding someone who can meet that.

Speaker 1: 1:04:40

Yeah, this has been good it has been good and really just to think about this, we've only went over one reason why? Because remember other people there's pros and cons to all of these shared family. There's pros and cons to people who want status, social status and traditions, financial stability, and so we really want all of you to really think about and we'll put the pros and cons in the show notes so that you all can can look at it. But it's very, very important that you really understand and ask yourself why do I want to get married? Say so, I'm ready to get married, but why? So? Please make sure that you comment why you want to get married. You say so, I'm ready to get married, but why? So please make sure that you comment why you want to get married. If you have questions about something that we said, put it also in the comments. Make sure that you're liking and subscribing, but before we go, we also last season we ended with rapid fire questions, but this year I mean this season we actually want to make sure that we're asking questions to you, because premarital coaching is so vital and so important. If you're thinking about getting married, please do so, because it really helps you to get to know not only yourself. It gets to help you get to know one another, it helps you to learn how to communicate and it even gives you the tools that are necessary so that you can be prepared and equipped before conflict arises or before misunderstandings arise, so that you can be able to handle those and get through them and get past them.

Speaker 1: 1:06:11

And so a couple of questions that I want you to consider is that when you're thinking about why you want to get married, a lot of that is stemmed from who you were in your family history and a lot of times even why you want to get married. It goes all the way back to when you were a kid. So a couple of questions, really a few questions I want you to think about is number one did you like yourself as a child? Did you like yourself as a child and explain why? This is something that you need to write down as an individual. Number two did you like yourself as a teenager and explain why and it's okay if the answer was yes, but if it wasn't, then think about that what was happening in your life that when you were a teenager and when you were a child, and what role does that play in your life today? That's the third question. So I really want you to process that, because a lot of times as adults, we're treating and responding to the child that is within us, and so we then take that and carry it over into our marriage and you don't even understand that that's what's being manifest inside of you. So you just need to ask yourself that question and then have that conversation with your spouse so that you all can start to process like, what are you thinking about and why is that important, and how is who you were impacting, who you are and what you even desire going forward. And then the last question I want you to ask you got a lot of questions. I do. It's a lot of homework. This is important Again. So you want to get married. There's a lot of questions that you have to ask yourself in order to prepare to do this Because, again, it's not necessarily about being a husband or not necessarily about being a wife. It's about being a healthy and whole individual, so that the two of you can become one.

Speaker 1: 1:08:08

So last question is how did you learn, how do you learn to adjust the differences in your partner without losing who you are?

Speaker 1: 1:08:19

Let me ask one more time how do you learn to adjust to the differences? How do you learn to adjust to the differences in your partner without losing who you are? Because it's big and we talked a lot about interdependence, but we talked a lot about being an individual, and so as simple as that illustration as we talked about, with her cutting her hair, sometimes I, or in that instance, that would have been a deal breaker for some people, for some men, especially us as men who function off of our eyes. That's how I want this. I got to be married to you first in my life. If I got to see you, then you need to be looking how I look and it's hair that we're talking about, but sometimes it could be her losing weight, it could be her gaining weight, it could be any of those things. So how do you learn to adjust to the differences in your partner without losing who you are? There's so many things that can go around. There's both ways inside of that question. But just really sit, pray, ponder, think about it, and then we would love for you to comment inside, dm us whatever it is, but we thank y'all. It's been a good episode, it's been a great episode, it's been a good conversation, and so we're excited.

Speaker 1: 1:09:36

Next, we're going to talk about some misconceptions about marriage in episode number two some misconceptions about marriage and where you get those from and how are they impacting you and how they could impact you in the future. So please come back and check us out for episode two. You can go check out season one If you have not. If you're new to the we3 winning team, please go check us out. You can follow us on youtube. If you're listening to us on wherever you podcast, you can check us out and subscribe on youtube. Make sure you comment like share, because we just want to make sure we're reaching as many people as we possibly can. So thank y'all for tuning in and we'll see y'all next time. Peace you.